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Bolt-Action
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PostSubject: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:27 pm



What's your opinion over the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Brief overview from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict


Last edited by Bolt-Action on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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goh13
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:38 pm

Just another religious war.

If you are saying who is wrong, it is Isreal. Palestine did not do **** to anyone AFAIK.

Just a small fact to keep you thinking: Isreal can fight in the name of religion but when someone else does it, all hell break loose.



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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:47 pm

goh13 wrote:
Just another religious war.

If you are saying who is wrong, it is Isreal. Palestine did not do **** to anyone AFAIK.

Just a small fact to keep you thinking: Israel can fight in the name of religion but when someone else does it, all hell break loose.



I agree, that's why I made my avatars pro-Palestine. It's amazing how hypocritical the American gov. Can be at times. We will back one religious group but not the other - and what makes it worse is that Israel is the ones who have killed more people, more children, more civilians. Yet the Arabs are still portrayed as the people committing mass genocide in this. Bias fucking reporting much?

I do not hate Jews, but I hate Zionism with a fucking passion. It's like racism on steroids.
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goh13
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:04 pm

Bolt-Action wrote:


I do not hate Jews, but I hate Zionism with a fucking passion. It's like racism on steroids.


The Jews hate the Zionist FFS!

It will not end in peace that for sure. It is a revolution or mass murder for all I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:14 pm

Israel is the only reliable ally of the west in the middle east.

Palestinians are a fractured people, if they had their own independent state it's almost guaranteed it's still going to be a terrorist state.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:40 pm

Liquid* wrote:
Israel is the only reliable ally of the west in the middle east.

Palestinians are a fractured people, if they had their own independent state it's almost guaranteed it's still going to be a terrorist state.



So that means that we keep funding our ally and allow them to terrorize the peoples we assume would form a terrorist state? That's an insane rationalizing. So we justify Israel's murdering of women and children just because we figure their the better evil? More insanity



The Palestinians have suffered so much due to this pointless conflict. Faris Odeh (pictured above) stood alone in front of an Israeli tank tossing stones at it in an attempt to make the IDF leave his home alone. They shot him in the neck for it. How is that able to be justified in any way, shape, or form? Doesn't that already sound like a terrorist state? Forcing peoples to abandon their homes? Bombing mosques and shooting women and children? I don't know about you but that there sounds like terrorism and America is endorsing it with 30 billion dollars. Thank you for funding the genocide Obama (sarcasm).
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:00 pm

The problem nobody talks about:

Palestinians do not just want a state (this was offered to them and they refused it). They want a right of return to Israel.

Since that means 20 million arabs could suddenly go back in the jewish state, guess what it means for them. The jews essentially lose their country (population is 7M, with 25% arabs already).

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Fatty
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:53 pm

How much do I hate this image:

God, reminds me of primary school. "There there boys, shake hands and apologies." "yes teacher...". Until you get back out onto the playground and it's right back to the fisty-cuffs.

Nah, sorry but I'm with Israel on this one. The Palestinians started it.

Quote :
In the immediate aftermath of the United Nations' approval of the
Partition plan, the explosions of joy amongst the Jewish community were
counterbalanced by the expressions of discontent amongst the Arab
community.
Quote :
According to Benny Morris,
much of the fighting in the first months of the war took place in and
on the edges of the main towns, and was initiated by the Arabs. It
included Arab snipers firing at Jewish houses, pedestrians, and traffic,
as well as planting bombs and mines along urban and rural paths and
roads.

They started the war, they lost.
Obviously I don't condone mass murders from anybody. BUT, I think it's highly unfair that everyone always seems to be against the Israelis considering they were attacked first.

Oh and that thing with the ship boarding last year(?) was so BS. The turks knew there was a blockade and they were warned. WTF were the Israelis suppose to do? When a vessel is coming into waters like that and is ignoring warnings, then of course you are going to react. Idiots bringing it upon themselves.

Whenever I see on the news an attack on the westbank or the gaza strip it's always "Israel reacts after something something".

Is America invading Iraq in response to 9/11 any different to Israel rocketing the gaza strip in retaliation to the gaza strip rocketing Israel?

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goh13
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:04 pm

Fatty wrote:


Quote :
According to Benny Morris,
much of the fighting in the first months of the war took place in and
on the edges of the main towns, and was initiated by the Arabs. It
included Arab snipers firing at Jewish houses, pedestrians, and traffic,
as well as planting bombs and mines along urban and rural paths and
roads.

Is America invading Iraq in response to 9/11 any different to Israel rocketing the gaza strip in retaliation to the gaza strip rocketing Israel?

So, how reliable is your source on your 2nd quote? If it is true, you are right on what you said.

It is Afghanistan not Iraq.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:08 am

I'm supporting the people who can land an F-15 with one wing!

...fine, I'll make an intelligent post later. I need to turn on the news a little more, haven't done so in awhile.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:40 am



Fatty I think anyone can agree that using Benny Morris as an unbiased opinion is insane. He is a self-proclaimed Zionist and always uses Israeli sources. How can that be anything BUT biased toward the Zionist lobby? How do you ever see the pain experienced by the other side? Also, did you really expect anything but dis-contempt from the Arabs with the Partition plan? I don't care if the Jews had the land thousands of years ago and that Europe signed it over. There were people living there to begin with and now the Israeli's force them from their homes, demolish their school, kill their children, and are so kind enough to bomb their mosques while they roll along.

How can you side with the people blocking the U.N. from bringing food to the dying Palestinian peoples? The IHH, the people who were involved in the Gaza floatilla raid were simply bringing humanitarian aid and construction materials to the people of the area. What were they supposed to do? Watch as their Islamic brothers died due to some oppression forced on them by the Jewish occupation? Israeli's are practically committing systematic genocide that the world is simply content with watching. It's as if the Jews are committing their own holocaust.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Bolt-Action wrote:
There were people living there to begin with and now the Israeli's force them from their homes, demolish their school, kill their children, and are so kind enough to bomb their mosques while they roll along.

The problem with land is that it's not distributed according to some universal justice principles. Land is not shared. Sure that does not grant them some legitimacy over the region, but the truth is that the jews are there and they'll fight to the death before they give it up.

They won't move away, period.

Bolt-Action wrote:

How can you side with the people blocking the U.N. from bringing food to the dying Palestinian peoples? The IHH, the people who were involved in the Gaza floatilla raid were simply bringing humanitarian aid and construction materials to the people of the area. What were they supposed to do? Watch as their Islamic brothers died due to some oppression forced on them by the Jewish occupation? Israeli's are practically committing systematic genocide that the world is simply content with watching. It's as if the Jews are committing their own holocaust.

The flotilla was all about testing Israël's borders. Israelis did intercept the ships, searched them, and ultimately let the humanitarian aid in. You have to understand that Israel is dealing with two major problems:

1) Demographics.
2) Security.

Lastly, they are a sovereign state, thus they are allowed to control their borders.

I can understand why an Egyptian or Libanese doesn't like Israël... But when the whole muslim "nation" develops the same hobby, you know something is wrong. For example, what does Iran have to do with Israël? Did Iran lose some land? Nope. Iran saw the potential of harvesting the hatred of Israel and is using it to strengthen its control in the Middle East.

Hating Israël is a good way to rally the arab/muslim world. You know it works when people in Morocco are obsessed with Israel. Lol wtf, get a life.

Oh right, the "muslim brotherhood".

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:44 pm

Edited a small (yet important) mistake in previous post.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Exactly French. That is the impression I got from that whole situation.
Had that been any other country then the ships owners would have been scolded for a) trying to get through a blockade and b) ignoring warnings to cease, not the intercepting country.
And like you said, they let it in when they found it to be just a humanitarian ship.

Israel is definitely picked on that is for sure.

I think that the Jews fight to survive, but the Muslims fight to eradicate the Jews. The Jews just want a country to call their own, but the Muslims just want them out.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:07 pm

Fatty wrote:
Exactly French. That is the impression I got from that whole situation.
Had that been any other country then the ships owners would have been scolded for a) trying to get through a blockade and b) ignoring warnings to cease, not the intercepting country.
And like you said, they let it in when they found it to be just a humanitarian ship.

Israel is definitely picked on that is for sure.

I think that the Jews fight to survive, but the Muslims fight to eradicate the Jews. The Jews just want a country to call their own, but the Muslims just want them out.

Your point is? People used to live in that country and the Jews [ Zionist really ] came bombing the shit out of it. Can we bomb the USA to call it our own land? Or any other country for that matter.

Unless I miss understood something in your/French post.....
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:06 pm

goh13 wrote:
Fatty wrote:
Exactly French. That is the impression I got from that whole situation.
Had that been any other country then the ships owners would have been scolded for a) trying to get through a blockade and b) ignoring warnings to cease, not the intercepting country.
And like you said, they let it in when they found it to be just a humanitarian ship.

Israel is definitely picked on that is for sure.

I think that the Jews fight to survive, but the Muslims fight to eradicate the Jews. The Jews just want a country to call their own, but the Muslims just want them out.

Your point is? People used to live in that country and the Jews [ Zionist really ] came bombing the shit out of it. Can we bomb the USA to call it our own land? Or any other country for that matter.

Unless I miss understood something in your/French post.....

Last time I checked, the Israels were also being bombed.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:29 pm

goh13 wrote:

Your point is? People used to live in that country and the Jews [ Zionist really ] came bombing the shit out of it. Can we bomb the USA to call it our own land? Or any other country for that matter.

The problem is that they are living there. You think that they will leave?

Palestinians will only get some land back the day that they will declare themselves independent, with the risks that involves. Yes, there will likely be a conflict, as Israel will defend itself, but that's how it works. No land is shared. The UN is a lost cause (did it ever solve something?) and terrorism just justifies the jewish state's claims.

But as I said before, the palestinians don't just want a country. They want the "right of return" or in other words, the death of Israel.

And why does it even concern you? If you were Egyptian, Palestinian or Libanese, I'd understand. But you are from Kuwait? Please, don't tell me about that distant grand cousin who lost his home to the jews...

Why are people in Algeria and Morocco concerned by this? Why are arabs in Canada, the US and Europe obsessed by this? If they are direct descendants of palestinians, ok. But most aren't. Hating Israel is simply just a hobby within the "muslim world".

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:21 am

FrenchB wrote:
goh13 wrote:

Your point is? People used to live in that country and the Jews [ Zionist really ] came bombing the shit out of it. Can we bomb the USA to call it our own land? Or any other country for that matter.

The problem is that they are living there. You think that they will leave?

Palestinians will only get some land back the day that they will declare themselves independent, with the risks that involves. Yes, there will likely be a conflict, as Israel will defend itself, but that's how it works. No land is shared. The UN is a lost cause (did it ever solve something?) and terrorism just justifies the jewish state's claims.

But as I said before, the palestinians don't just want a country. They want the "right of return" or in other words, the death of Israel.

And why does it even concern you? If you were Egyptian, Palestinian or Libanese, I'd understand. But you are from Kuwait? Please, don't tell me about that distant grand cousin who lost his home to the jews...

Why are people in Algeria and Morocco concerned by this? Why are arabs in Canada, the US and Europe obsessed by this? If they are direct descendants of palestinians, ok. But most aren't. Hating Israel is simply just a hobby within the "muslim world".
I agree completely, french is right.

If palestine got sovereignty then war would break out, they'd build an army and try to take more, more, more. and israel would just have to fight back and a nuclear war could be a result. Remember, Israel has nukes.

I'd trust israel with the holy land before i'd trust the muslims, the so called religion of peace certainly doesn't show itself as such.

The israelis always retaliate when a nice little rocket barrage ends up hitting a populated area, and although i do think they went a little far with the whole thing over the one single soldier being held prisoner, you gotta show that kind of aggressiveness when you're surrounded by enemies.

It's just like beating the shit out of a bully when they finally make you snap, once you show them you won't take their shit anymore, they more than likely leave you alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:33 am

One more thing: foreign politics should be governed by self-interest and a form of loyalty/friendship to allies (if such a thing exists between States).

The West should have no shame in supporting Israel. The country is the sole democratic regime in the region. Most importantly, the Jews are part of the Western world. Oh sure, things weren't easy between them and the christian majorities, but the West (US and France especially) was more often times a safehaven to them compared to other parts of the world. I tend to think that the West is more christian than "judeo-christian", and yet, I can't rule out their contribution (philosophy and literature for example... and making tons of money with our money Very Happy).

Israel is our historical and civilizational ally, we need to back them. Even if we let Israel go in some form of "appeasement" strategy, the Middle-East and the Arab world would still dream of the West's downfall...

So why cater to people who are never satisfied and continuously spit at your face.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:59 am

The real question is why SHOULD NOT I care?

Anyway, if I believe 9/11 videos, it is only fair for you to believe in anything you want.

One side is wrong in this. I am not sure who.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:12 am

Nuke the middle east

problem solved

Well most of the problems...

Without ANY religions, the world would be a more peaceful place.
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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:47 am

Liquid* wrote:
Nuke the middle east

problem solved

Well most of the problems...

Without ANY religions, the world would be a more peaceful place.

That would be the best way to do it

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:55 pm

Liquid* wrote:

Without ANY religions, the world would be a more peaceful place.
Didn't you even watch the atheism episodes of south park? where the atheists were still fighting over which form of atheism was better?

People are gonna go to war over anything, religion, borders, mass executions, empire expansion, or just for good plain old fashioned blood shed.

Judaism and christianity have reached their maturity as religions, and wars are not fought in the name of god by them anymore, islam is much younger, and is still a teenager by religious standards. A rebellious, douchey teenager being stricken by the ravages of horomones. It's growing hair in funny places and doesn't know what to do, and it won't listen to its parents because it hates them.

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:50 pm

NoSkinnyLadies wrote:

Judaism and christianity have reached their maturity as religions, and wars are not fought in the name of god by them anymore, islam is much younger, and is still a teenager by religious standards.

Pretty much.

And Goh: why care about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and not the Chinese-Tibetan one or any other majority-minority one?

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PostSubject: Re: Free Palestine   Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:13 am

FrenchB wrote:
NoSkinnyLadies wrote:

Judaism and christianity have reached their maturity as religions, and wars are not fought in the name of god by them anymore, islam is much younger, and is still a teenager by religious standards.

Pretty much.

And Goh: why care about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and not the Chinese-Tibetan one or any other majority-minority one?
Yeah no shit, the chinese-tibet issue is just as big, China is bullying tibet, israel doesn't bully, they just show that they won't take any shit. Tibet wasn't necessarily doing terrorist acts against chinas occupation, but monks are prone to burning themselves.

I know, he's vietnamese, but still, it's a good example. ;p

That's how you put on a fucking protest.

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